St. Seraphim of Sarov said" Acquire the Holy Spirit and thousands will come to Christ." In other words, become holy and that will draw others to holiness. Attempts to transform the world that come from our fallen natures will only produce failed utopias. I am vigorously allowing GOD to make me holy through humbling prayer. Join me.
I couldn't agree more. But transforming the world that come from our glorified nature in Christ is very much a Christian act. I don't think we're on opposite sides here, brother and friend, as explored above.
Beautiful--thank you. This has resolved a lot for me. Just wondering how the Charismatic "Renewal" relates to this--it seems to reflect the same longing for enchantment, though in a different and potentially dangerous way. Perhaps this is behind our bishop fully endorsing training in charismatic ministry by inviting it into our diocese while at the same time trimming all vestiges of traditional worship from our masses. Would like to hear your views of this movement.
The charismatic renewal is imperfect, to be sure. I think it can lead to a shallow Pietism, if not attached with obedience to the Church. BUT I do not ever want to be a man that stands between someone and Christ. We all get pulled in by glimmers of the Truth; I originally just liked the Church for its history and beauty... but then I found I was falling in love with Jesus and Mary. So I guess I'd say--not having explored the Charismatic revival in depth--that if it begins the journey, great. If it ends there, we have a problem. And the bishops need to lead people higher up and further in, into the quiet and laughter of the heavens, not be content with expressions of popular piety, but see them as a doorway into depth. I have met some Charismatic Catholics whom I admire so much; yet at 40-50 years old this was the first time they were hearing Gregorian Chant. That's a problem, because our culture FORMS us in certain ways.
You will always be filled up and overflowing with the love of God, whether you're a thimble or a cistern. But I'd rather be a cistern I think. Culture forms capacity. This is not to insult the simple man; simple men often have hidden depths. But I am worried about aesthetic and emotional shallowness; childishness rather than childlikeness. I'll have to think about it more. Thank you for your thoughtful engagement.
"...aesthetic and emotional shallowness; childishness rather than childlikeness."
Precisely. Exactly my concern. A confirmation teacher at one of the schools in the diocese introduced charismatic aspects to her class. The Bishop was overwhelmed with the genuineness and depth of the letters the kids wrote to him (don't know if this is universal, but here all young people getting confirmed have to write a letter to the bishop saying why they want to be confirmed). When he asked the teacher what she had done, he turned around and invited the charismatics in to provide training to both priests and laity, meanwhile banning Latin/Gregorian chant and other traditional trappings. I wonder what would have happened if a class of confirmation students taught by a reverent traditionalist had written heartfelt letters to the bishop......
As a traditionalist who teaches Confirmation classes, the letters coming from my students are less-than-remarkable, though their faith is truly deepened. I think we traditionalists have a communication problem, and that it centers on Joy. I'm trying to learn humbly from the more "plugged-in" people in our Church. Because I love the Tradition, but our children, especially in public schools, are so separated from it that they find it completely mysterious, as foreign as an African tribe who has never seen the ocean. So the bridge must be built, without compromising the Gospel. Pray for me as I am working on it. Pray for me as I try and manifest in my life the raucous Joy of Christ.
So beautiful. I love Fagerberg too.
St. Seraphim of Sarov said" Acquire the Holy Spirit and thousands will come to Christ." In other words, become holy and that will draw others to holiness. Attempts to transform the world that come from our fallen natures will only produce failed utopias. I am vigorously allowing GOD to make me holy through humbling prayer. Join me.
I couldn't agree more. But transforming the world that come from our glorified nature in Christ is very much a Christian act. I don't think we're on opposite sides here, brother and friend, as explored above.
Beautiful--thank you. This has resolved a lot for me. Just wondering how the Charismatic "Renewal" relates to this--it seems to reflect the same longing for enchantment, though in a different and potentially dangerous way. Perhaps this is behind our bishop fully endorsing training in charismatic ministry by inviting it into our diocese while at the same time trimming all vestiges of traditional worship from our masses. Would like to hear your views of this movement.
The charismatic renewal is imperfect, to be sure. I think it can lead to a shallow Pietism, if not attached with obedience to the Church. BUT I do not ever want to be a man that stands between someone and Christ. We all get pulled in by glimmers of the Truth; I originally just liked the Church for its history and beauty... but then I found I was falling in love with Jesus and Mary. So I guess I'd say--not having explored the Charismatic revival in depth--that if it begins the journey, great. If it ends there, we have a problem. And the bishops need to lead people higher up and further in, into the quiet and laughter of the heavens, not be content with expressions of popular piety, but see them as a doorway into depth. I have met some Charismatic Catholics whom I admire so much; yet at 40-50 years old this was the first time they were hearing Gregorian Chant. That's a problem, because our culture FORMS us in certain ways.
You will always be filled up and overflowing with the love of God, whether you're a thimble or a cistern. But I'd rather be a cistern I think. Culture forms capacity. This is not to insult the simple man; simple men often have hidden depths. But I am worried about aesthetic and emotional shallowness; childishness rather than childlikeness. I'll have to think about it more. Thank you for your thoughtful engagement.
"...aesthetic and emotional shallowness; childishness rather than childlikeness."
Precisely. Exactly my concern. A confirmation teacher at one of the schools in the diocese introduced charismatic aspects to her class. The Bishop was overwhelmed with the genuineness and depth of the letters the kids wrote to him (don't know if this is universal, but here all young people getting confirmed have to write a letter to the bishop saying why they want to be confirmed). When he asked the teacher what she had done, he turned around and invited the charismatics in to provide training to both priests and laity, meanwhile banning Latin/Gregorian chant and other traditional trappings. I wonder what would have happened if a class of confirmation students taught by a reverent traditionalist had written heartfelt letters to the bishop......
As a traditionalist who teaches Confirmation classes, the letters coming from my students are less-than-remarkable, though their faith is truly deepened. I think we traditionalists have a communication problem, and that it centers on Joy. I'm trying to learn humbly from the more "plugged-in" people in our Church. Because I love the Tradition, but our children, especially in public schools, are so separated from it that they find it completely mysterious, as foreign as an African tribe who has never seen the ocean. So the bridge must be built, without compromising the Gospel. Pray for me as I am working on it. Pray for me as I try and manifest in my life the raucous Joy of Christ.